Buy or register mynewssite📰.eth or mynewssite🗞.eth or another domain with emoji flair and have the company flaunt it and their 1k eth price for mynewssite.eth becomes essentially worthless, then wait them out and make lower offers until they accept one that youre happy with
[FEATURE REQUEST]: Prevent renewal of unauthenticated ENS domains once DNS exists
You own it for the period you agree to at point of minting, right? So, I’m suggesting subsequent mints operate under a different contract not that current live contracts are edited.
The view being proposed is a rather romanticised version of what is actually occurring, which is that one address is buying a lot of addresses for legitimate businesses then listing them to sell immediately for their own profit. The address is not using the owned domains for any operations outside of selling the domains they’ve purchased according to my review on Etherscan.
It can be bad if we do start operations from our address and then the squatter sells an address similar to ours to a nefarious party and consumers are unable to effectively differentiate between our legitimate operations and the operations from an address almost identical to ours.
I believe this change is required to remove bad actors from this space and to allow greater adoption across a larger count of businesses - I foresee this being an issue for many legitimate businesses trying to enter the space.
Yeah mate, I thought taking the .com DNS may also cause the squatter to lose interest also but my legal team weren’t happy with it existing at all because it could be seen as confusing to the average consumer.
It’s very likely that a much lower offer will be accepted by this person. They’ve probably had it for a while and need liquidity and there’s really only one buyer that it would be most useful to imo, which is the company @ARL
What you are describing is technically possible and in my book sounds very much like fork of existing set of contracts with different rules tailored toward interests of specific agent. The idea was that ENS would avoid this kind of situations entirely.
Romanticised or not, but this is the very philosophy behind .eth names, and the reason they are becoming so popular.
I totally understand your concern, I think it’s fair to say that this problem by now been discussed not even for hours, but for days in a row. In my view in any situation its always cost / benefit analysis: cost here is difficulties, which businesses may have, however the benefits for global community far outweighs it.
Not a day goes by, when I don’t see in the news that businesses, regions, or parts of infrastructure are being shutdown because some corrupt DNS provider decided to pull the switch. Like so Multiple Mining Pools Are Facing Connectivity Issues.
Please understand what ENS is trying to do here. Fixing such issues will be such a monumental progress.
But getting back to your situation, why don’t you just ask nicely? sometimes that’s all it takes. https://twitter.com/BrantlyMillegan/status/1472847183699488776 - here is Brantly passing NBA.eth to NBA rep.
If I recall correctly, there used to be a list of .eth names with anonymized contacts, if you find your name in the list, it might be possible to get it.
Brantly worked for 3 years now for ENS and is one of core team members, you can absolutely trust him with that situation. He is a very well known public person and will be happy to help you.
I really don’t want to get your hopes up, but solution, just might be much closer than you can imagine. Please do get in touch with him.
What do you mean by “our domain”? Why would you think that you have any claim whatsoever over a name? I am assuming you are relying on a trademark registration in a particular class in a particular country? Or are you simply relying on the fact that you have a domain name registered? Owning an ENS name, even one that is identical to an existing trademark or domain name is not trademark infringement. Trademark infringement requires an infringing action by the owner of the name — simply owning a name is not an infringing action.
ENS is a completely decentralized protocol. The maintainers of the protocol will never do anything to provide preferential treatment to anyone during the registration or renewal process. Even if they did, there is also the obvious problem of deciding who has the stronger claim to a name. Is it the person or company that owns the .com or should it be the .org? What happens when there are conflicting names in different countries? Should a .co.uk have a stronger claim than a .com.au? ENS is not going to turn into ICANN.
If you have a strong claim to the name, as you seem to think you do, get in contact with Opensea and request the name be removed from the website. Short of buying the name from the current owner, this is the best course of action here. Without Opensea there is very little chance that the name ends up in the hands of anyone else.
While technically possible, I don’t think you’ve thought about the consequences something like this would have. Anyone who wants a .eth name for themselves could go register the .com (or .net or .xyz or .sexy or whatever) domain, and thus for the price of $5 ensure they have the right to take the .eth domain off its current owner when it is next due to expire.
Further, with literally hundreds of DNS TLDs, there’d be no clear way to adjudicate between owners of the same name on different TLDs as to who should get the .eth.
I think that was rude and inappropriate. Here is this person / company, comes into ENS community seeking solution, and instead of talking through situation with him you make him even more angry.
Is it possible to initiate all sorts of litigations against ENS team, or against Opensea as marketplace for example, or any other parties involved in this process?
→ The answer is "absolutely yes"
Are they going to win this hypothetical process?
→ I don’t know, they might or they might not
Irrespectively of the fact whether the process is successful or not, are there any real winners in this situation?
→ I don’t think so. They will pay money to compensate solicitors, ENS will incur legal cost, it will harm ENS as protocol, because it will shake user’s confidence in the product.
And only you @Louie I presume will simply walk away with clean hands, because you have nothing at stake and watch it from sidelines eating popcorn.
@ARL I would like to kindly ask you to consider all of my arguments / explanations and actually contact Brantly, see if solution to your situation can be found in some peaceful respectful manner
I think that a simple reversal of the question illustrates the issue quite well:
Should owners of ENS names be allowed to petition ICANN to refuse .com owners to renew a name that’s identical to their ENS name, even when the .com owner registered first?
That doesn’t make a lot of sense and it would have the same repercussions as what you propose.
Nearly every name would be blocked from registration because someone leased it on a different service, on a different protocol.
That would drive away nearly every user of the service that’s negatively affected and all that would be left are blocked names for companies that doesn’t intend to use them, but just wants to prevent others from using them.
It’s worth paying attention to what @SpikeWatanabe.eth writes about contacting the owner to see if the name can be handed over, and brantly.eth has facilitated such transfers in the past. For example, the owner of nba.eth relinquished it to the NBA for free.
Sorry, I just thought I would provide some insight based on my extensive experience as a lawyer dealing with intellectual property disputes. I didn’t find your answers useful in any way, so I decided to step in. Happy to not be involved though
Not sure why any of the other points you raised are relevant because you clearly have no experience dealing with this area of law. I don’t know how to respond to nonsensical arguments.
I will be sure to enjoy my popcorn.
You have to appreciate that in the court of law ANYTHING is possible, even some outcome which is completely insane
Here is example of how Amazon.com won custody over .amazon TLD, which used to belong to some countries in Latin America.
Sounds completely crazy and insane to me, but nevertheless here it is. According to this article, the process itself took 7 years. Do we want someone like Arl to pursue 7 years litigation against ENS? I don’t think so. Can he do it? Maybe.
Let’s say there is this worse case scenario, the owner of “his” .eth name does not want to release it to him for free, he doesn’t want to sell at some reasonable price, he insists on prohibitively high price effectively blocking the domain in limbo. Like absolutely worst case scenario, the owner is just stubborn.
Is it wise in that scenario to taunt and aggravate someone Arl even further like @Louie is doing?
What is the point this exercise? We don’t know who Arl is, maybe he is just some internet troll, or maybe he is board executive. So you want to drive him completely mad and lock him on conviction to win legal battle no matter the cost? How is this smart or makes any sense?
Or what were you trying to achieve @Louie ?
I was genuinely trying to provide useful information that you did not cover in your answers.
Where did I taunt him? I mirrored his tone and asked him a simple question.
The whole point of ENS is that it is a decentralized protocol that does not have a disputes resolution process that allow names to be confiscated from owners. If I had to guess, I suspect you are right—the DAO will be the subject of IP litigation in the near future. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but pretending to be nice to someone isn’t going to magically stop it from occurring.
I have no idea. I was trying to be helpful. You are the one who decided to criticize my answer for no reason. So you tell me, what are you trying to achieve @SpikeWatanabe.eth?
Well if you ever really saw any contract, then in case of disagreements your first call is “mediation”
He seemed frustrated by the situation, so I tried to mediate, by explaining in more detail what ENS is, what are implications of ENS’ protocol design and how his situation can be fixed with lowest cost possible.
… if there is a mediation clause in a contract that specifies this, yes, this is true. Mediation takes place between two parties, so I am not sure what you think you were mediating.
I must say, this has been a novel experience. I hope they keep you around. I am sure you will do wonders for inclusion in the DAO.
This is a very interesting issue that has been long foreseen and predicted. There is no certain outcome here to begin with. My quick two cents with some tangential experience in Law:
One can bring a legal suit against ENS (True Names LTD) as well as the owner of the desired .eth domain (if mediation fails) if and only if the claimant has a proof of international trademark registered before the date of registration of the .eth domain in question. Other than that, claimant stands little to no chance and the suit will be thrown out if anyone is crazy enough to take it on. If the international trademark registration criteria is fulfilled, then ENS may be in hot water for “allowing” trademark infringement and the .eth domain address owner for IP theft. Whether the hot water boils over and burn everyone depends entirely on how influential/chad/alpha the claimant is.
We’re an 100+ year old news brand with multiple trademarks in different countries, if there was a legitimate use case for this business or a trademark dispute this would be an easier pill to swallow (as we have some businesses where we don’t own the rights in the US as a business already existed with that name). I never stated it was just trademark infringement though (you did), could be brand damage or misrepresentation in a legal sense (I am not a lawyer but our legal team didn’t like it).
They already have through the .com DNS workflow. You cannot mint the .com without being the authenticated owner through DNSSEC.
This is a good point actually, and one which may require more discussion once ENS allows for minting on other domain types. I have restricted this current thinking to “.com” domain, which we own but as an example there is a domain we own for ONLY .co.uk and not .com. The difference here being that if our business was listed alongside another legitimate operating business that would be less of a concern.
As stated mate, we’re an 100+ year old brand with multiple registries so it would be difficult for a legitimate business to claim more of a stake to our core business. There are domains where it may be more complex due to geo specific elements but most of our domains and businesses are old enough that some blockchain based address would struggle to show as much of a claim to the name. As stated, this is not a legitimate usage, it’s just squatting so I’m not sure they would bother fighting it.
Yeah mate, fair - we’re an 100+ year old news brand; I don’t think we would expect ENS to police this as they have imperfect information of who owns what. However the solution being proposed, which is IF a business does authenticate via DNS “.com” workflow, then ENS would be better to disallow other unauthenticated people from minting (or renewal of) the .eth. I struggle to see a real world or legitimate scenario where this is impacting to a normal user, i.e. common sense would dictate if I try to buy amazon.sexy or amazon.xyz that Amazon will probably take issue with that?
The solution is not perfect as it only allows for .com domains; however it reflects the current DNS workflow capabilities and as a business who owns multiple .co.uk domains we would be open to discussing how this could be recognised for legitimate businesses in the process. Could be .uk.eth for .co.uk domains as an example.
Fair mate, it’s just awkward as I’m sure the guy is quite busy and doesn’t want to have to deal with our specific case. I’ll float the idea internally though.
Thanks for all your inputs btw.
@ARL I was trying to convey a message that there are certain restrictions which may cause issues, but this is very important piece of infrastructure enabled by blockchain technology
Getting in touch with @brantlymillegan is just fine, thats what he does, if that situation can be fixed I’m certain that he will be super happy
I personally think that any deviation from the current workflow will amount to censorship, howsoever trivial it may be to implement. It is effectively not for ENS to judge/decide what qualifies as squatting and what doesn’t, apart from whatever the legal system in place can implement with respect to trademark regulations, OR, a hard-fork (not happening unless there are 1000s of claimants against TNL, Ethereum Foundation at least with a lawsuit ready to go). It is really that simple: you can force a change only with a binding trademark registration at the very least aka owning a mydomain.com domain doesn’t amount to ownership of the ‘mydomain’ trademark. Other than that, unless you can negotiate with the domain owner, I do not see how anything can be changed irrespective of how legitimate your case might be.
Our brand is registered with the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) with us as the owner (I just found this out by Googling my business name and then looking up a registry but can confirm the info held there is in line w/ what I would expect, e.g. the external counsel we interact with is correctly listed).
The Classes associated with the trademark would arguably make most crypto operations a breach of such trademark, i.e. we own the usage for most technical contexts.
Just to confirm, this is not some weird flex - just looking to confirm we have a valid reason as a business to want to own this name.
The .com namespace is incredibly crowded. “Reserving” every .com domain would deny people from registering vast parts of the .eth namespace that have no connection to trademark infringement whatsoever, and allowing .com owners the right to take the domain when it expires would provide an avenue for people to obtain any .eth name they want against its current owner’s will.
For a concrete example: should the owner of wallet.eth be prohibited from renewing it, and have to give it up to the owner of wallet.com if they want it when it expires?